07-09-2008, 01:44 PM
askwhy Wrote:
Even if he had spent 35 years in prison, it obviously wasn't enough since he is still out carjacking people at gunpoint.
So you think that the purpose of prison is rehabilitation.
07-09-2008, 01:44 PM
07-09-2008, 01:46 PM
askwhy Wrote:
I believe that Eric Anthony Bell should be the poster boy for jacket's failed idea of a justice system. Looking a few years back at Mr. Bell's stellar record not counting the most recent car jacking:
10-19-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
8-2-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
6-9-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
2-13-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
12-25-06 Failure to Appear
11-6-06 Theft by Possession
8-20-06 Driving suspended (5th) offense
9-16-05 Aggrevated burglary
6-22-05 Possession of drug paraphrenalia
2-10-05 Driving on suspended; motor vehicle theft; drug paraphrenalia
2-9-05 He was stabbed - wouldn't press charges
1-16-05 Driving while suspended
1-27-05 Warrant for violation of probation
Note that this is not a complete list since obviously there are several driving while suspended and who knows what in other locales.
Now jacket would think I am too mean for contending that our justice system should have locked this guy up years ago and thrown away the key. He would prefer that his family/community help him go straight. Well they also have criminal records - surprise! Jacket - please feel free to explain to all of us how great our justice system is in this area. It is obvious that law enforcement was at least trying with this many arrests.
10-19-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
8-2-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
6-9-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
2-13-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
12-25-06 Failure to Appear
11-6-06 Theft by Possession
8-20-06 Driving suspended (5th) offense
9-16-05 Aggrevated burglary
6-22-05 Possession of drug paraphrenalia
2-10-05 Driving on suspended; motor vehicle theft; drug paraphrenalia
2-9-05 He was stabbed - wouldn't press charges
1-16-05 Driving while suspended
1-27-05 Warrant for violation of probation
Note that this is not a complete list since obviously there are several driving while suspended and who knows what in other locales.
Now jacket would think I am too mean for contending that our justice system should have locked this guy up years ago and thrown away the key. He would prefer that his family/community help him go straight. Well they also have criminal records - surprise! Jacket - please feel free to explain to all of us how great our justice system is in this area. It is obvious that law enforcement was at least trying with this many arrests.
So there were no convictions? And you want him locked up without a conviction? And you wonder where the analogy with the Taliban comes from.
07-09-2008, 02:55 PM
askwhy Wrote:
CrackerNation Wrote:
askwhy Wrote:
I believe that Eric Anthony Bell should be the poster boy for jacket's failed idea of a justice system. Looking a few years back at Mr. Bell's stellar record not counting the most recent car jacking:
10-19-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
8-2-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
6-9-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
2-13-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
12-25-06 Failure to Appear
11-6-06 Theft by Possession
8-20-06 Driving suspended (5th) offense
9-16-05 Aggrevated burglary
6-22-05 Possession of drug paraphrenalia
2-10-05 Driving on suspended; motor vehicle theft; drug paraphrenalia
2-9-05 He was stabbed - wouldn't press charges
1-16-05 Driving while suspended
1-27-05 Warrant for violation of probation
Note that this is not a complete list since obviously there are several driving while suspended and who knows what in other locales.
Now jacket would think I am too mean for contending that our justice system should have locked this guy up years ago and thrown away the key. He would prefer that his family/community help him go straight. Well they also have criminal records - surprise! Jacket - please feel free to explain to all of us how great our justice system is in this area. It is obvious that law enforcement was at least trying with this many arrests.
10-19-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
8-2-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
6-9-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
2-13-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
12-25-06 Failure to Appear
11-6-06 Theft by Possession
8-20-06 Driving suspended (5th) offense
9-16-05 Aggrevated burglary
6-22-05 Possession of drug paraphrenalia
2-10-05 Driving on suspended; motor vehicle theft; drug paraphrenalia
2-9-05 He was stabbed - wouldn't press charges
1-16-05 Driving while suspended
1-27-05 Warrant for violation of probation
Note that this is not a complete list since obviously there are several driving while suspended and who knows what in other locales.
Now jacket would think I am too mean for contending that our justice system should have locked this guy up years ago and thrown away the key. He would prefer that his family/community help him go straight. Well they also have criminal records - surprise! Jacket - please feel free to explain to all of us how great our justice system is in this area. It is obvious that law enforcement was at least trying with this many arrests.
So there were no convictions? And you want him locked up without a conviction? And you wonder where the analogy with the Taliban comes from.
You guys are just special. Of course there were some convictions. I just listed arrests. Does anyone not see a problem with getting picked up like 5 times for violating probation?
Not if the charges proved unfounded. Which of these charges was he convicted of?
07-09-2008, 02:59 PM
askwhy Wrote:
CrackerNation Wrote:
askwhy Wrote:
Even if he had spent 35 years in prison, it obviously wasn't enough since he is still out carjacking people at gunpoint.
So you think that the purpose of prison is rehabilitation.
Nope I think the purpose of prison is to separate bad guys who can't live within our laws from the honest citizens who deserve protection.
So any conviction should include the possibility of life without parole? That sounds very Talibanie. I'm glad the constitution has something to say about this.
askwhy Wrote:
It would be nice if they would come out and not commit further crimes.
Isn't that the very definition of rehabilitation?
07-09-2008, 03:12 PM
I agree with CrackerNation here.
Don't break out a list of arrest warrants and expect anyone to make some kind of conclusion about a guy's justice system record. Break out the list of convictions and the penalties he's served and you're hitting paydirt. If we see a guy who's consistently doing serious crime, being found guilty, yet getting a tiny sentence, then I'll agree that we have a problem.
By the way, for those who are just now getting the idea that Oak Ridge has a drug problem: a huge proportion of Oak Ridge kids had drug and alcohol issues when I was a kid here several decades ago. I cannot tell you how many times I saw my friends loaded at school or having a "liquid lunch." No one ever addressed it then. At least now the issue is in the open.
I'll tell you, though, I've never seen anything that really, truly helps a drug and alcohol issue. I'm not saying you don't try; you have to try. But it's a pervasive problem among all strata of people--those slinging crack and those going down to the doctor to get prescriptions and those hitting the liquor store or the beer store. The only difference there is the legality of the drug.
Don't break out a list of arrest warrants and expect anyone to make some kind of conclusion about a guy's justice system record. Break out the list of convictions and the penalties he's served and you're hitting paydirt. If we see a guy who's consistently doing serious crime, being found guilty, yet getting a tiny sentence, then I'll agree that we have a problem.
By the way, for those who are just now getting the idea that Oak Ridge has a drug problem: a huge proportion of Oak Ridge kids had drug and alcohol issues when I was a kid here several decades ago. I cannot tell you how many times I saw my friends loaded at school or having a "liquid lunch." No one ever addressed it then. At least now the issue is in the open.
I'll tell you, though, I've never seen anything that really, truly helps a drug and alcohol issue. I'm not saying you don't try; you have to try. But it's a pervasive problem among all strata of people--those slinging crack and those going down to the doctor to get prescriptions and those hitting the liquor store or the beer store. The only difference there is the legality of the drug.
07-09-2008, 03:23 PM
Nobody's defending this particular guy, at least as far as I can tell.
The quality of your example is a problem. That's all. Find a different example, one that has a little more solid ground beneath it.
The quality of your example is a problem. That's all. Find a different example, one that has a little more solid ground beneath it.
07-09-2008, 03:32 PM
askwhy Wrote:
since you are so concerned that he is being treated unfairly
I'd even be concerned when you are treated unfairly by the criminal justice system. For a $125 per hour consultant, it is hard to understand why you cannot understand the difference between a charge and a conviction. You seem content with the charge and don't care whether there are actual convictions among your list.
As Atomic indicated, that is pretty weak.
07-09-2008, 04:55 PM
askwhy Wrote:
I believe that Eric Anthony Bell should be the poster boy for jacket's failed idea of a justice system. Looking a few years back at Mr. Bell's stellar record not counting the most recent car jacking:
10-19-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
8-2-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
6-9-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
2-13-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
12-25-06 Failure to Appear
11-6-06 Theft by Possession
8-20-06 Driving suspended (5th) offense
9-16-05 Aggrevated burglary
6-22-05 Possession of drug paraphrenalia
2-10-05 Driving on suspended; motor vehicle theft; drug paraphrenalia
2-9-05 He was stabbed - wouldn't press charges
1-16-05 Driving while suspended
1-27-05 Warrant for violation of probation
Note that this is not a complete list since obviously there are several driving while suspended and who knows what in other locales.
Now jacket would think I am too mean for contending that our justice system should have locked this guy up years ago and thrown away the key. He would prefer that his family/community help him go straight. Well they also have criminal records - surprise! Jacket - please feel free to explain to all of us how great our justice system is in this area. It is obvious that law enforcement was at least trying with this many arrests.
10-19-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
8-2-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
6-9-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
2-13-07 Arrest warrant for violation of probation
12-25-06 Failure to Appear
11-6-06 Theft by Possession
8-20-06 Driving suspended (5th) offense
9-16-05 Aggrevated burglary
6-22-05 Possession of drug paraphrenalia
2-10-05 Driving on suspended; motor vehicle theft; drug paraphrenalia
2-9-05 He was stabbed - wouldn't press charges
1-16-05 Driving while suspended
1-27-05 Warrant for violation of probation
Note that this is not a complete list since obviously there are several driving while suspended and who knows what in other locales.
Now jacket would think I am too mean for contending that our justice system should have locked this guy up years ago and thrown away the key. He would prefer that his family/community help him go straight. Well they also have criminal records - surprise! Jacket - please feel free to explain to all of us how great our justice system is in this area. It is obvious that law enforcement was at least trying with this many arrests.
All but two are misdemeanors. Max 11 months 29 days, serve 9 months. No disposition is noted on the felonies but it appears he may have gone to prison on at least the Aggravated Burglary. And your point is? He was convicted, given time, violated and sent to prison at least once on the only crime that could do that particular thing. Wow, over blown again.
07-09-2008, 06:11 PM
askwhy Wrote:
CrackerNation Wrote:
askwhy Wrote:
since you are so concerned that he is being treated unfairly
I'd even be concerned when you are treated unfairly by the criminal justice system. For a $125 per hour consultant, it is hard to understand why you cannot understand the difference between a charge and a conviction. You seem content with the charge and don't care whether there are actual convictions among your list.
As Atomic indicated, that is pretty weak.
I certainly understand the difference between a charge and a conviction.
I do care about convictions. I don't have the time to go through 20 years plus of criminal history and give you a complete history of the adjudication of each charge, which court was involved, which judge, etc. Unless you think that this guy was just hassled a few dozen times for no reason, a reasonable person would assume he is a career criminal who certainly spent enough time out of jail to commit a bunch of crimes and get arrested a lot.
You should be able to see the point that there is a revolving door in dealing with these guys that needs to be addressed. If you don't see that or care - you should probably invite him over, I am sure he is an interesting guy and you have lots in common.
I do see your point, and it appalls me that you wish to equate what a reasonable person may surmise about him (that he's given to committing crimes) with the task of the legal system (adjudicating each individual crime according to the law). Those are two vastly different things: one a natural and subjective thing that all of us do to some degree, and the other an objective ideal that we struggle to put into action. This guy deserves exactly as much justice as anyone else.
I'm no sure this was the point of the thread, either.
07-10-2008, 07:55 AM
JustMe Wrote:
Jacket Wrote:
What muslim's think of the Constitution is irrelevant. What the SCOTUS thinks of the Constitution is the only authority.
1. The Congressional branch has constitutional means to alter the constitution and to alter legislation to work around court rulings...No branch of government has any constitutional authority higher than any of the other two.
2. Minnesota is advancing toward shariah law...From the article: "The events here suggest a larger strategy: By piggy-backing on our civil rights laws, Islamist activists aim to equate airport security with racial bigotry and to move slowly toward a two-tier legal system." Fortunately over 90% of Minnesotans oppose Shariah law so we can hope but stayed tuned to news vipes from Minneapolis.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/cc/?id=110009832
"1. The Congressional branch has constitutional means to alter the constitution and to alter legislation to work around court rulings...No branch of government has any constitutional authority higher than any of the other two."
Congress rarely does this, otherwise there would be an amendment banning abortions. I think I said above the branches were equal. The SCOTUS has final authority as to what the Constitution means when there is a question.
I wouldn't read anything Levin has written. Sorry, he is simply a talking head with a radio show.
To get a better idea try "The Brethern" it is the first indepth book on the subject and the only one until that point in history that was written using information provided by the Court employees and the Justices.